Does any one know about the different dialects of cantonese
and how their pronunciation differs from standard HK cantonese?
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated,
Xinghuo
cantonese dialects
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lisa c
Re: cantonese dialects
Well there are a few out there. I speak Hoi Ping (Kai Ping)/Toisan (Taishan) which is in the Si yap (Siyi) dialect of Cantonese. Quite a big difference in tones, pronounciation, and words of choice. Not as slangy as HK standard.
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xinghuo
follow up on dialects
Thanks.I have read that hoisan dialect has less tones than standard cantonese and has certain changes like standard t=h and ch=t. If anyone can give some real examples I would much appreciate it
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Kobo-Daishi
Re: follow up on dialects
I don't know about Hoi Ping, but, the following characters with an initial 't' sound in Cantonese have an initial 'h' sound in Tai Shan: ~{K{K}L+L)K~~}體~{m{~}題~{ML~}頭聽廳~{LpLlLo~}鐵臺~{L(~}湯~{LCLGLFMAMC~}圖~{M>M,~}銅~{M2MH~}
and the following characters with an initial 'c' sound in Cantonese have an initial 't' sound in Tai Shan: ~{2M~}參親~{F_GeG`~}請簽~{G'G0~}錢錯~{2E2D~}財~{2]4gH+2K~}
Probably, a lot more, but these are the only ones I could think of.
Why are you interested in Yue dialects other than Cantonese?
Are you Chao Zhou since your e-mail address says Teochew.com?
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
and the following characters with an initial 'c' sound in Cantonese have an initial 't' sound in Tai Shan: ~{2M~}參親~{F_GeG`~}請簽~{G'G0~}錢錯~{2E2D~}財~{2]4gH+2K~}
Probably, a lot more, but these are the only ones I could think of.
Why are you interested in Yue dialects other than Cantonese?
Are you Chao Zhou since your e-mail address says Teochew.com?
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
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xinghuo
Re: follow up on dialects
No, I'm not tiujau yan but my friend is, I wanted to know the toisan pronunciation of some words because one of our friends speaks cantonese but with a strange accent and we were wondering if just because her family have been wagiu for a long time or because of the area they come from. Anyway Daishi whats your back ground?
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Lisa c
Re: follow up on dialects
A test would be to ask her how she would call someone to dinner (eat rice).
HK Cantonese - sate fan
Hoi Ping/Hoy Saan - heuk fan
Zhong San - yat fan
Hoi Ping/Hoy Saan is also more nasal and has a lot of 'cl' sounds for 's'
Ex. Fun cloo - fen si (rice vermicelli)
cleng - seang (think)
We also don't have as many 'd' sounds in the same places
Ow fu - dou fu
oo - duo
oo dea - duo jie
I couldn't read the characters on Kobo's email, so this is what I can think of for other differences right of the bat:
tay - chi (as in rice balls - nao my chi)
han - tan (beach)
han - tan (paralyzed)
hong - tong (Chinese)
vu - ba-ll (ball - I know Chinglish)
law hu - lao paw
clain sang - xian sang
I guess you're friend doesn't know what she speaks? That's kind of unusual. Of course she may not have a Chinese accent at all. It could be ABC, VBC etc. One of my cousins speaks Chinese w/a Southern American accent. It's SO funny when he drawls.
HK Cantonese - sate fan
Hoi Ping/Hoy Saan - heuk fan
Zhong San - yat fan
Hoi Ping/Hoy Saan is also more nasal and has a lot of 'cl' sounds for 's'
Ex. Fun cloo - fen si (rice vermicelli)
cleng - seang (think)
We also don't have as many 'd' sounds in the same places
Ow fu - dou fu
oo - duo
oo dea - duo jie
I couldn't read the characters on Kobo's email, so this is what I can think of for other differences right of the bat:
tay - chi (as in rice balls - nao my chi)
han - tan (beach)
han - tan (paralyzed)
hong - tong (Chinese)
vu - ba-ll (ball - I know Chinglish)
law hu - lao paw
clain sang - xian sang
I guess you're friend doesn't know what she speaks? That's kind of unusual. Of course she may not have a Chinese accent at all. It could be ABC, VBC etc. One of my cousins speaks Chinese w/a Southern American accent. It's SO funny when he drawls.
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Kobo-Daishi
Re: follow up on dialects
Dear XingHuo,
My parents came from Tai Shan, so, I learnt 台山話 (tai2 shan1 hua4, toi4 saan1 waa6) from them. I didn’t study Chinese in a school until high school when I took Mandarin. That was a long time ago. Now, I’m studying Cantonese from books & cassette tapes. The Foreign Service Institute (FSI) series. All Yale romanisation except for a hand-written glossary at the end.
I don’t know if your computer is able to read Chinese characters, but, the last posting was in simplified (HZ). Here are the characters in Big-5 encoding.
These characters which have an initial 't' sound in Cantonese have an initial 'h' sound in Tai Shan:
他 (ta1, taa1) he
她 (ta1, taa1) she
太 (tai4, taai3) very
泰 (tai4, taai3) Thailand
塔 (ta3, taap3) pagoda
體 (ti3, tai2) body
睇 (di4, tai2) look
題 (ti2, tai4) 2nd part of question (問題 wen4 ti2, man6 tai4)
吞 (tun1, tan1) swallow
頭 (tou2, tau4) head
聽 (ting1, teng1) hear
廳 (ting1, teng1) main room of a house
腿 (tui3, teoi2) the legs & the thighs
甜 (tian2, tim4) sweet
天 (tian1, tin1) heaven
田 (tian2, tin4) field
鐵 (tie3, tit3) iron
臺 (tai2, toi4) terrace
台 (tai2, toi4) simple form of above
湯 (tang1, tong1) soup
堂 (tang2, tong4) hall; 2nd part of church (教堂 jiao4 tang2, gaau3 tong4)
糖 (tang2, tong4) sugar
唐 (tang2, tong4) Tang dynasty
土 (tu3, tou2) soil
兔 (tu4, tou3) rabbit
圖 (tu2, tou4) map
途 (tu2, tou4) 2nd part of long distance (長途 chang2 tu2, coeng4 tou4)
同 (tong2, tung4) same
銅 (tong2, tung4) copper
筒 (tong3, tung4) tube
and these characters with an initial 'c' sound in Cantonese have an initial 't' sound in Tai Shan:
(can1, caan1) meal
參 (shen1, cam1) ginseng
親 (qin1, can1) relatives
七 (qi1, cat1) seven
清 (qing1,cing1) Qing dynasty
青 (qing1, cing1) youth
請 (qing3, cing2) invite
簽 (qian1, cim1) to sign
千 (qian1, cin1) thousand
前 (qian2, cin4) front
錢 (qian2, cin4) money
錯 (cuo4, cok3) mistake
才 (cai2, coi4) talent
材 (cai2, coi4) materials
財 (cai2, coi4) wealth
草 (cao3, cou2) grass
寸 (cun4, cyun3) inch
村 (cun1, cyun1) village
全 (quan2, cyun4) complete
菜 (cai4, coi3) vegetable
Where are you at? The United States? What is that web-site where your e-mail address is at?
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
My parents came from Tai Shan, so, I learnt 台山話 (tai2 shan1 hua4, toi4 saan1 waa6) from them. I didn’t study Chinese in a school until high school when I took Mandarin. That was a long time ago. Now, I’m studying Cantonese from books & cassette tapes. The Foreign Service Institute (FSI) series. All Yale romanisation except for a hand-written glossary at the end.
I don’t know if your computer is able to read Chinese characters, but, the last posting was in simplified (HZ). Here are the characters in Big-5 encoding.
These characters which have an initial 't' sound in Cantonese have an initial 'h' sound in Tai Shan:
他 (ta1, taa1) he
她 (ta1, taa1) she
太 (tai4, taai3) very
泰 (tai4, taai3) Thailand
塔 (ta3, taap3) pagoda
體 (ti3, tai2) body
睇 (di4, tai2) look
題 (ti2, tai4) 2nd part of question (問題 wen4 ti2, man6 tai4)
吞 (tun1, tan1) swallow
頭 (tou2, tau4) head
聽 (ting1, teng1) hear
廳 (ting1, teng1) main room of a house
腿 (tui3, teoi2) the legs & the thighs
甜 (tian2, tim4) sweet
天 (tian1, tin1) heaven
田 (tian2, tin4) field
鐵 (tie3, tit3) iron
臺 (tai2, toi4) terrace
台 (tai2, toi4) simple form of above
湯 (tang1, tong1) soup
堂 (tang2, tong4) hall; 2nd part of church (教堂 jiao4 tang2, gaau3 tong4)
糖 (tang2, tong4) sugar
唐 (tang2, tong4) Tang dynasty
土 (tu3, tou2) soil
兔 (tu4, tou3) rabbit
圖 (tu2, tou4) map
途 (tu2, tou4) 2nd part of long distance (長途 chang2 tu2, coeng4 tou4)
同 (tong2, tung4) same
銅 (tong2, tung4) copper
筒 (tong3, tung4) tube
and these characters with an initial 'c' sound in Cantonese have an initial 't' sound in Tai Shan:
(can1, caan1) meal
參 (shen1, cam1) ginseng
親 (qin1, can1) relatives
七 (qi1, cat1) seven
清 (qing1,cing1) Qing dynasty
青 (qing1, cing1) youth
請 (qing3, cing2) invite
簽 (qian1, cim1) to sign
千 (qian1, cin1) thousand
前 (qian2, cin4) front
錢 (qian2, cin4) money
錯 (cuo4, cok3) mistake
才 (cai2, coi4) talent
材 (cai2, coi4) materials
財 (cai2, coi4) wealth
草 (cao3, cou2) grass
寸 (cun4, cyun3) inch
村 (cun1, cyun1) village
全 (quan2, cyun4) complete
菜 (cai4, coi3) vegetable
Where are you at? The United States? What is that web-site where your e-mail address is at?
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
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Kobo-Daishi
Re: follow up on dialects
Dear Lisa,
In the Tai Shan Hua that I speak, we pronounce the characters that you say have an initial sound of cl- in Kai Ping Hua/Tai Shan Hua with an initial sound of th-.
We say ‘theung’ for 想 (Mand: xiang3, Cant: soeng2) think & ‘thee’ for 絲 (Mand: si1, Cant: si1) silk.
Also, for the 先 (Mand: xian1, Cant: sin1) of 先生 (Mand: xian1 sheng5, Cant: sin1 sang1) teacher, we pronounce it as ‘theen’.
Since I couldn’t find a romanisation scheme for Tai Shan Hua this is my approximation of the sounds.
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
In the Tai Shan Hua that I speak, we pronounce the characters that you say have an initial sound of cl- in Kai Ping Hua/Tai Shan Hua with an initial sound of th-.
We say ‘theung’ for 想 (Mand: xiang3, Cant: soeng2) think & ‘thee’ for 絲 (Mand: si1, Cant: si1) silk.
Also, for the 先 (Mand: xian1, Cant: sin1) of 先生 (Mand: xian1 sheng5, Cant: sin1 sang1) teacher, we pronounce it as ‘theen’.
Since I couldn’t find a romanisation scheme for Tai Shan Hua this is my approximation of the sounds.
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
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xinghuo
Re: follow up on dialects
Kobo, my e-mail address is from a site set-up by Thai Teochiu business students after they graduated(trying to get that guanxi thing happening i suppose). I stumbled on to it one day while looking for an email address for my friend. The problem is the site is now offline and the only way to access the account is through the following url:
http://addresses.everyone.net/netsvc/ca ... -desc.html.
I am actuallly from Singapore originally and of Hakga ethnicity. My family moved to Australia and I am now studying Chinese at University. I am considering doing a thesis on the Toisan variant of Cantonese but would need help in terms of vocabulary as resources for this dialect are sparing.
http://addresses.everyone.net/netsvc/ca ... -desc.html.
I am actuallly from Singapore originally and of Hakga ethnicity. My family moved to Australia and I am now studying Chinese at University. I am considering doing a thesis on the Toisan variant of Cantonese but would need help in terms of vocabulary as resources for this dialect are sparing.
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Kobo-Daishi
Re: follow up on dialects
Dear Xing Huo,
Are you majoring in Chinese at university?
Why do you want to write about Tai Shan Hua for your thesis? As you know resources are almost non-existent. Since there is almost no source material on Tai Shan Hua, maybe you should choose something else for your thesis. Perhaps, you should do your thesis on the Hakka dialect. You must have some familiarity with the dialect, and there are quite a bit of material about Hakka, even on the internet.
But, if you do decide to do your thesis on Tai Shan Hua, you might visit:
WWW.TAISHAN.COM
From the postings at this site, I gather that it is a fairly new site by a New Yorker of Taishan descent who is now in Taishan. It’s not very were designed, but, it does provide a source to Taishan. They have a link to a chat room in simplified Chinese for discussion about things Taishan.
According to Jimmy (the web-master?), there are three varieties of Taishan Hua. And speakers of one variety may have difficulty understanding speakers of the other varieties. He says that later in the year he’s going to add a Taishan glossary with sound files to the web-site. You should e-mail him for information about the dialect.
Are there any Taishan people in Australia or Singapore?
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
Are you majoring in Chinese at university?
Why do you want to write about Tai Shan Hua for your thesis? As you know resources are almost non-existent. Since there is almost no source material on Tai Shan Hua, maybe you should choose something else for your thesis. Perhaps, you should do your thesis on the Hakka dialect. You must have some familiarity with the dialect, and there are quite a bit of material about Hakka, even on the internet.
But, if you do decide to do your thesis on Tai Shan Hua, you might visit:
WWW.TAISHAN.COM
From the postings at this site, I gather that it is a fairly new site by a New Yorker of Taishan descent who is now in Taishan. It’s not very were designed, but, it does provide a source to Taishan. They have a link to a chat room in simplified Chinese for discussion about things Taishan.
According to Jimmy (the web-master?), there are three varieties of Taishan Hua. And speakers of one variety may have difficulty understanding speakers of the other varieties. He says that later in the year he’s going to add a Taishan glossary with sound files to the web-site. You should e-mail him for information about the dialect.
Are there any Taishan people in Australia or Singapore?
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.