I was aware that 走狗 (running dogs), meant people who were working for the conquering faction. However, the fact that this term was used, with 滿清 (Man[chu]-Qing) represents that there were racial tensions, and that someone working for the conquering race. In turn, the use of "Manchu" represents that there were tensions, because as you said, any race worked for the Qing government, however, they exclusively said "Manchu". Remember, even the original bannermen, consisted not only of Manchus.
2. Well, I'm not the one who added in race, as an additional requirement all of a sudden to be Chinese, in defense against a "non-oritenal-looking" race in becoming Asian. So, it seems equally, if not moreso, important to you as it does to me...
To see how much these people have accepted Chinese culture, you'll have to go there yourself to see. If there are people who don't accept it though, it's not that they don't want to though. If you'd like to know what I mean, you'll have to be in a situation where you are the minority. If you wanted me to write an essay on it, I most likely wouldn't have enough time.
4. In the context of the thread, I find in no way how my race contributes anything. Selfish reasons? If I were Anglo-Saxon, Gaelic, Incan, Aztec, Chinese, Cantonese, Japanese, Russian, Mongolian, Tibetan, etc... who would I try to get recognition from? Don't tell me that "I'm the only one who knows", or that I'm "giving you guessing games". With enough clues, you can make deductions. With nothing in your hands, or method of logic, you're only speculating.
You forget the medium we use to communicate through, is the internet. This is the realm of anonymity, where people aren't as they seem. You say you're Cantonese? Who knows, you could actually be some guy from the Czech Republic, who hacked into the Singaporean system to cover your tracks. Or, you could be a Malay in Singapore, pretending to be Chinese. All are speculations...
5. Did I say all of them that were there were criminals? No. Did all the criminals there accept the aboriginal culture? Zhao Tuo (who was not a criminal) was said to have dressed himself like the aborigines, and did everything the way they did. Unless they were in some Chinese outpost, or some Chinese-style metropolis (assuming if there were any), then "no, these Chinese didn't accept aborigine culture".
A Separate Cantonese Republic???
-
ppk
Re: A Separate Cantonese Republic???
2. i have always been in a situation where i am a minority for the past 8 yrs. to me, trying to take up their culture is only when i feel the need, to gain recognition from them. and when i am in a disadvantaged situation, i'll try to use my minority status for defense. i would say that most minority group would try this tactic.
-
Sum Won
Re: A Separate Cantonese Republic???
Actually, your description of minorities oversimplifies their situation. Although this essay is geared towards Asian-Americans, I believe it can be applied to minorities in other countries:
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Teahouse/5678/@!#$2.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Teahouse/5678/@!#$2.htm
-
ppk
Re: A Separate Cantonese Republic???
c'mon sum, if its bcos u see minorities(esp those at macau or hk) get no recognition from local chinese, why not u ask them why are they there in the first place? did the chinese invited the portuguese over or did they came to colonise the orient? this is the result of their actions and u are now blaming the chinese for it. they chinese have to pay for the consequences by giving up canton. heck, think more on cause and effects.
-
Sum Won
Re: A Separate Cantonese Republic???
Am I blaming the Chinese for foreigners taking over the regions and colonizing it? No! You don't see the main point here. This isn't something about majority-minority, this is about the hypocrisy in policies you sinocentrics support, depending on who plays them out. If you don't see the similarity between the way the Chinese did things to the aborigines, and the way the Westerners during their colonization period were doing things, then you're just playing yourself.
The reason I even mentioned these minorities was to pinpoint what murky standards you'd bring in for "Cantoneseness", since you said I had no idea what it meant to be Cantonese. I told you that these people who didn't take in Chinese culture, is because there are reasons, and gave you a link, which didn't even come out correct, because the forum software had a censorship program. If you click on my alias, a link should be provided, as long as you copy the link and paste it into the browser (unless they censor my e-mail address as well).
The Chinese have to pay for the consequences of giving up Canton? Well then, that should be the price they receive in killing a culture, and stealing land that didn't belong to them.
The reason I even mentioned these minorities was to pinpoint what murky standards you'd bring in for "Cantoneseness", since you said I had no idea what it meant to be Cantonese. I told you that these people who didn't take in Chinese culture, is because there are reasons, and gave you a link, which didn't even come out correct, because the forum software had a censorship program. If you click on my alias, a link should be provided, as long as you copy the link and paste it into the browser (unless they censor my e-mail address as well).
The Chinese have to pay for the consequences of giving up Canton? Well then, that should be the price they receive in killing a culture, and stealing land that didn't belong to them.
Re: A Separate Cantonese Republic???
hey mr tim sum :
lei pin tou lei ga?
pa hao goum chao geh?
fang hei yak si lah !
lei pin tou lei ga?
pa hao goum chao geh?
fang hei yak si lah !
-
HKB
Re: A Separate Cantonese Republic???
Sum, the English "killed a culture" in America, they stole a land that didn't belong to them. Should the Americans now give the United States back to the indians? If so, who is there to take it back? Not to mention that today, all people who claim that they have Indian descent consider themselvse to be Americans-just like all Cantonese-speaking people consider themselves to be Chinese.
-
HKB
Re: A Separate Cantonese Republic???
Also, Sum, just a question,
Suppose that I was born in Hong Kong. So were both of my parents. And so were their parents. Then, all of their parents were from Guangzhou. then all of theirs were from TaiShan. Then theirs in turn included some bandits who escaped from Shan Dong and were chased till they rested in TaiShan, 1/4 of whom had Mongolian descent, the other 3/4 say were descendants of Han nobles. and the rest of those in TaiShan included some descendants of say the Kingdom of Chu, and one of the sons born of a Chu dad and a Tibetan mom married a Greek woman, whose children all joined with royals of the Han court again, 50 of these nobles were genetically 1/2 Han and 1/2 canton aboriginees. Then, what would you do with me when you separate Canton from China?
Suppose that I was born in Hong Kong. So were both of my parents. And so were their parents. Then, all of their parents were from Guangzhou. then all of theirs were from TaiShan. Then theirs in turn included some bandits who escaped from Shan Dong and were chased till they rested in TaiShan, 1/4 of whom had Mongolian descent, the other 3/4 say were descendants of Han nobles. and the rest of those in TaiShan included some descendants of say the Kingdom of Chu, and one of the sons born of a Chu dad and a Tibetan mom married a Greek woman, whose children all joined with royals of the Han court again, 50 of these nobles were genetically 1/2 Han and 1/2 canton aboriginees. Then, what would you do with me when you separate Canton from China?
-
Sum Won
Re: A Separate Cantonese Republic???
Hero:
唔係!你條女叫我錫妏擸q,點知臭到好似食對榴槤. 吤繨雱A都幾戇 [0下]!
HKB:
1. Correction: Many Native Americans don't consider themselves to be the same as the descendants of the white colonists. In fact, even many young Native-Americans who are about to college, don't even accept the federal government's scholarships. The conditions of the Native-Americans isn't even that good in America. So, land returning to the Native-Americans would be a good thing.
2. A person from Chu person marry a Grecian? Even though LingNam was a prosperous port area, filled with international trade, and cultural contact, I'd like to see evidence of Grecian ships reaching the ports of Chu (if they had any), I do know however, that Arabic ships did reach this region, during, the Sui dynasty. Evidence of Tibetan contact with this region would also be very interesting to see...
OK now, this leaves us with the bare "what do we do with the 'mixed breed'?" question...
In this world, there are people with dual citizenships.
唔係!你條女叫我錫妏擸q,點知臭到好似食對榴槤. 吤繨雱A都幾戇 [0下]!
HKB:
1. Correction: Many Native Americans don't consider themselves to be the same as the descendants of the white colonists. In fact, even many young Native-Americans who are about to college, don't even accept the federal government's scholarships. The conditions of the Native-Americans isn't even that good in America. So, land returning to the Native-Americans would be a good thing.
2. A person from Chu person marry a Grecian? Even though LingNam was a prosperous port area, filled with international trade, and cultural contact, I'd like to see evidence of Grecian ships reaching the ports of Chu (if they had any), I do know however, that Arabic ships did reach this region, during, the Sui dynasty. Evidence of Tibetan contact with this region would also be very interesting to see...
OK now, this leaves us with the bare "what do we do with the 'mixed breed'?" question...
In this world, there are people with dual citizenships.
-
HKB
Re: A Separate Cantonese Republic???
Sum Won,
first, to answer your response to the Americans. You claim that it would be "good" that America should be returned to the Indians. The reason you give for doing so is because of your observation that 1. "many" young native-americans don't accept government scholarships. 2. their conditions aren't so good. and 3. "many" native-americans don't consider themselves to be descenants of the white colonists. Now, I claim that your observations do not justify your claim at all. #1, your "observation" that the so-called young indians don't accept scholarship is merely another claim. you did not give any evidence to support that claim (i.e. statistics, sources, research results). by eliciting this statement you're also implying that they don't accept gov. scholarships because they don't consider themselves to be american, this doesn't have to be true. Maybe they want to work for it or they don't want other peers to say that they are more "advantaged". And you are not seeing the whole picture: "many" isn't "all". I could just as well claim that there are just as "many" young people w/ native american descent who do accept gov. scholarships. In fact I have a couple of classmates who do so. #2 "their conditions aren't so good" that's another claim that's not based on any evidence. My two classmates are middle-class or above. I can safely assume that there are many others that are doing well. remember, we are talking about those people who have indian "descent" not pure indians. finally, the "pure" indians such as the Shoshone don't seem to be doing as well as others i.e. whites and chinese but they want it that way (you can do some research yourself on the shoshone's self government and their plight of keeping their traditions.) #3"many" native american don't consider themselves to be descendants of the whilte colonists. black people are't white but if you say that they're then not americans they 'll probably kill you. same as people w/ indian descent: they may not consider themselves to be white but they consider themselves to be "american" at least many many do, I believe.
Lastly, you said that it is "good" to give america back to indians. you can argue the "goodness" of it all you want but is it "practical"? And what is "good" and what is "bad"? not to mention that it's impossible to give america back to the indians because there are practically not much o' them left.
first, to answer your response to the Americans. You claim that it would be "good" that America should be returned to the Indians. The reason you give for doing so is because of your observation that 1. "many" young native-americans don't accept government scholarships. 2. their conditions aren't so good. and 3. "many" native-americans don't consider themselves to be descenants of the white colonists. Now, I claim that your observations do not justify your claim at all. #1, your "observation" that the so-called young indians don't accept scholarship is merely another claim. you did not give any evidence to support that claim (i.e. statistics, sources, research results). by eliciting this statement you're also implying that they don't accept gov. scholarships because they don't consider themselves to be american, this doesn't have to be true. Maybe they want to work for it or they don't want other peers to say that they are more "advantaged". And you are not seeing the whole picture: "many" isn't "all". I could just as well claim that there are just as "many" young people w/ native american descent who do accept gov. scholarships. In fact I have a couple of classmates who do so. #2 "their conditions aren't so good" that's another claim that's not based on any evidence. My two classmates are middle-class or above. I can safely assume that there are many others that are doing well. remember, we are talking about those people who have indian "descent" not pure indians. finally, the "pure" indians such as the Shoshone don't seem to be doing as well as others i.e. whites and chinese but they want it that way (you can do some research yourself on the shoshone's self government and their plight of keeping their traditions.) #3"many" native american don't consider themselves to be descendants of the whilte colonists. black people are't white but if you say that they're then not americans they 'll probably kill you. same as people w/ indian descent: they may not consider themselves to be white but they consider themselves to be "american" at least many many do, I believe.
Lastly, you said that it is "good" to give america back to indians. you can argue the "goodness" of it all you want but is it "practical"? And what is "good" and what is "bad"? not to mention that it's impossible to give america back to the indians because there are practically not much o' them left.