So now it's the "he did it too, so I can do it" defense? Well, "if he jumped off a cliff, would you?"
Sure, other cultures have done it. However, can you prove your so-called "Bach Viet" did as well? Have you ever looked into the Southern Tribes' societies' structure, or even just their militaries' structure, and how they evolved through further interaction with China? Obviously not, because you're too sinocentric to look into other cultures.
A Separate Cantonese Republic???
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ppk
Re: A Separate Cantonese Republic???
no, its not a defense, u misinterpreted it. its a fact. wad i am saying is that its too complicated to trace back so we respect history as it is. while u hit on the chinese and americans, how far can u be sure the bach viets actually lived in canton area from the very beginning? u can decide your own point of history to begin with, to ur own advantage, so can others. u want to decide the history of cantonese to begin with the bach viets, we decide it to begin with qin dynasty. definitions, nomemclatures, wadever u call it, we all have our valid points. frankly speaking i am not a classicist who believe the past is always better and we should always try to go back to the old ways(thats why althou i respected confucious i never liked him). i would definitely say the present is much better than the past. if its just because u dont get a recognition from other cantonese u dun have to resort to this. if u think going back to the old ways will help u out, its probably gonna dissappoint u. this whole thing started bcos of ur personal reasons, i supposed, so bring out the big banner of 'revivng a culture' etc etc. u dun want to practice double standards, please do carry on with reviving the cultures bach viets assimilated to prove your sincerity.
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Sum Won
Re: A Separate Cantonese Republic???
ppk, did I ever say I wanted to go back into the past? No! I've reiterated this point many times over. Does reviving a culture necessarily mean going back in time? No! Kang You Wei reinterpreted Confucian thoughts to fit his times, for the need of the Manchurian government to stay in power. Even though the Empress Dowager Ci Xi (the "Old Dragon" as her enemies called her), banished him and others in the Hundred-Day Reform...
You are correct in stating the fact that tracing the history of the "Bach Viets", and in this case the "Proto-Cantonese" is an arduous, and turmoil-filled job, however, this is suppose to be some lame excuse to set your minds and peace and just ignore it? "Respect History" you say? It seems you'd more rather preserve "Falsehoods", and preserve "Misconceptions", than you would History.
You are correct in stating the fact that tracing the history of the "Bach Viets", and in this case the "Proto-Cantonese" is an arduous, and turmoil-filled job, however, this is suppose to be some lame excuse to set your minds and peace and just ignore it? "Respect History" you say? It seems you'd more rather preserve "Falsehoods", and preserve "Misconceptions", than you would History.
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ppk
Re: A Separate Cantonese Republic???
'ppk, did I ever say I wanted to go back into the past? No! I've reiterated this point many times over. Does reviving a culture necessarily mean going back in time? No! Kang You Wei reinterpreted Confucian thoughts to fit his times, for the need of the Manchurian government to stay in power. Even though the Empress Dowager Ci Xi (the "Old Dragon" as her enemies called her), banished him and others in the Hundred-Day Reform...
You are correct in stating the fact that tracing the history of the "Bach Viets", and in this case the "Proto-Cantonese" is an arduous, and turmoil-filled job, however, this is suppose to be some lame excuse to set your minds and peace and just ignore it? "Respect History" you say? It seems you'd more rather preserve "Falsehoods", and preserve "Misconceptions", than you would History. '
when did i said i wanted to do that?
then as u have accused me of, u are doing the same, reinterpreting the past to ur own advantage, creating new 'falsehoods' and 'misconception'.
u and i can trace it as much as we like. but not using it for ur own agenda. only we do it selflessly then we can find out the truth. we can find out whether there is a genuine culture of their own or not, or did they ever mix around or even assimilated other cultures, or did they embraced the chinese culture willingly or was forced to do it, no problem wadever it is. but leave history as it is. we correct the wrong thoeries, timelines, events that actually took place etc, in the books, but leave them in the classroom. we can announce our findings, even try to change certain things in actual life if they dont affect much. like maybe the birthdates of certain historical figures. example if the bible is absolutely right then jesus should be born at least 4 yrs earlier and it should be year 2007 by now. but not something that will affect the identity, social, polictical and economical status of 1/5 of the world population.
You are correct in stating the fact that tracing the history of the "Bach Viets", and in this case the "Proto-Cantonese" is an arduous, and turmoil-filled job, however, this is suppose to be some lame excuse to set your minds and peace and just ignore it? "Respect History" you say? It seems you'd more rather preserve "Falsehoods", and preserve "Misconceptions", than you would History. '
when did i said i wanted to do that?
then as u have accused me of, u are doing the same, reinterpreting the past to ur own advantage, creating new 'falsehoods' and 'misconception'.
u and i can trace it as much as we like. but not using it for ur own agenda. only we do it selflessly then we can find out the truth. we can find out whether there is a genuine culture of their own or not, or did they ever mix around or even assimilated other cultures, or did they embraced the chinese culture willingly or was forced to do it, no problem wadever it is. but leave history as it is. we correct the wrong thoeries, timelines, events that actually took place etc, in the books, but leave them in the classroom. we can announce our findings, even try to change certain things in actual life if they dont affect much. like maybe the birthdates of certain historical figures. example if the bible is absolutely right then jesus should be born at least 4 yrs earlier and it should be year 2007 by now. but not something that will affect the identity, social, polictical and economical status of 1/5 of the world population.
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ppk
Re: A Separate Cantonese Republic???
I'm sorry, I'd usually be offended by your first sentence, but I couldn't help but laugh at what'd followed...
"Selfless"?
Chinese + history= selflessness????
That's a funny equation! That's like saying Europeans never went around colonizing other places (since you so hate the fact I only choose the Americans and Chinese exclusively).
Yeah, your origins aren't much anything, because they don't stop the world from revolving. Funny though, because it was always a big thing to your people under foreign occupation...
"Selfless"?
Chinese + history= selflessness????
That's a funny equation! That's like saying Europeans never went around colonizing other places (since you so hate the fact I only choose the Americans and Chinese exclusively).
Yeah, your origins aren't much anything, because they don't stop the world from revolving. Funny though, because it was always a big thing to your people under foreign occupation...
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ppk
Re: A Separate Cantonese Republic???
who is the guy above posting under my name?
thats your own equation, dont stuff words into my mouth. applies to u too, 'non-chinese+history=selflessness'? answer for yourself.
i traced my origin better than u in any aspect, fren, so keep that comment to yourself.
thats your own equation, dont stuff words into my mouth. applies to u too, 'non-chinese+history=selflessness'? answer for yourself.
i traced my origin better than u in any aspect, fren, so keep that comment to yourself.
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ppk
Re: A Separate Cantonese Republic???
anyway, if u just want to play the racists card, that anything chinese-related is not worth believing, instead of studying them on a rather neutral standpoint, anyone can use that trick on you too.
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Sum Won
Re: A Separate Cantonese Republic???
"Racist cards"? I was never the one who used racial genetics/physical features (i.e. "Epicanthic folds for the eyes, attributed to non-Orientals"), to support my views. Nor am I the one who deemed cultures as "higher and lower". Proposing a "Seperate Cantonese Republic" doesn't necessarily mean it's racist. Apparently, you still don't understand the purpose for the Republic...
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ppk
Re: A Separate Cantonese Republic???
it is a fact that different race have different genetic features, so why is stating that being 'racists'? there is nothing wrong when we used these to find out which race is reated to which. only when u try to exaggerate these physical differences to a 'who's better than who' scenario then thats where the racists part sets in.
a higher or lower culture means some cultures are more advanced than others at a given time frame, its a relative comparism, not an absolute one. the standard of measurement is rather simple, those who are using newer techs and newer tools at certain period of time, or had discovered certain academic advancement, they are the higher culture. its no secret that some advanced faster than other at certain point of history but slower than others at another point of history. all depends of the time frame chosen. try not to nitpick, u wont be successful.
looking back at ur own proposal, the very basic reason for a cantonese republic is that (maybe)they have 'a different culture' and a 'different racial composition'. thats pretty obvious, isnt it?
a higher or lower culture means some cultures are more advanced than others at a given time frame, its a relative comparism, not an absolute one. the standard of measurement is rather simple, those who are using newer techs and newer tools at certain period of time, or had discovered certain academic advancement, they are the higher culture. its no secret that some advanced faster than other at certain point of history but slower than others at another point of history. all depends of the time frame chosen. try not to nitpick, u wont be successful.
looking back at ur own proposal, the very basic reason for a cantonese republic is that (maybe)they have 'a different culture' and a 'different racial composition'. thats pretty obvious, isnt it?
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Sum Won
Re: A Separate Cantonese Republic???
If you'd like to lump yourself in some stereotypical role, go ahead and use racial profiling upon yourself, so the next time someone labels you as Japanese, I suppose the profile that you've set up for yourself, would make you Japanese.
When you compare cultures and give it a value, then that is racism. So a would you say that a crab is superior to an ant, for its size, when in actuality, both of their seperate body parts have evolved to adapt to their environment?
Now, looking back at earlier arguements, the reason for a seperate Cantonese Republic, was because, racist bigots such as yourself, have put a lower value on culture.
When you compare cultures and give it a value, then that is racism. So a would you say that a crab is superior to an ant, for its size, when in actuality, both of their seperate body parts have evolved to adapt to their environment?
Now, looking back at earlier arguements, the reason for a seperate Cantonese Republic, was because, racist bigots such as yourself, have put a lower value on culture.