Complement particles - kah, liáu, tio̍h, hōo...

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
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Abun
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Complement particles - kah, liáu, tio̍h, hōo...

Postby Abun » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:14 pm


amhoanna
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Re: Complement particles - kah, liáu, tio̍h, hōo...

Postby amhoanna » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:02 am

盞、盞、盞。阿文汝今已経是 ADVANCED 个水準。



I have not given this much thought just now, but I was able to discuss this topic with some linguistically-aware native speakers the other day. What I remember learning was that the tonal workings on the V-tio̍h ADV structure are not what You would expect. It's actually liàntiāu(~「変」調) on the verb, and khiātiāu(~「本」調) on «tio̍h». Weird, huh. Apparently, this is the rule all over TW.



Your descriptions seem to be spot on.



I'd use «chiòⁿ liáu» over «chiòⁿ tio̍h».



I've never really mastered the «tio̍h». I only use it when nothing else seems to fit. I need to work on it.



Something that suddenly came to mind is whether ergativity's got anything to do with it. Is «tio̍h» kind of like this ergative «liáu»?



One thing that's on my mind also is the «zero complement». I think sometimes just the bare verb is enough. Exactly when this is true, I've yet to figure out. I think I've been over-using the zero complement. It has something to do with non-native speaker hearing. You think the native speaker used no complement, but actually it was there in a clipped form.



I have a bit much on my mind right now, but I think it's great that we're talking grammar. This is much needed in the Hoklosphere, in the face of an unspoken belief that grammar -- at least for "Chinese" languages -- is a non-factor.

amhoanna
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Re: Complement particles - kah, liáu, tio̍h, hōo...

Postby amhoanna » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:06 am

One more thing. Have You bought a copy of the TÂIGÍ PE̍H'ŌE SIÓ SÛTIÁN? If not, You owe it to yourself -- assuming You can read Mandarin, though. It's a Hoklo-Mandarin dictionary. They carry it at Tâi'oân ê tiàm right by the Univ. of Taiwan.

Abun
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Re: Complement particles - kah, liáu, tio̍h, hōo...

Postby Abun » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:43 am


amhoanna
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Re: Complement particles - kah, liáu, tio̍h, hōo...

Postby amhoanna » Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:45 pm


Abun
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Re: Complement particles - kah, liáu, tio̍h, hōo...

Postby Abun » Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:19 am


amhoanna
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Re: Complement particles - kah, liáu, tio̍h, hōo...

Postby amhoanna » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:13 pm


Abun
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Re: Complement particles - kah, liáu, tio̍h, hōo...

Postby Abun » Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:15 pm


amhoanna
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Re: Complement particles - kah, liáu, tio̍h, hōo...

Postby amhoanna » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:01 pm


xng
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Re: Complement particles - kah, liáu, tio̍h, hōo...

Postby xng » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:41 am



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