Interesting black and white Taiwanese movie

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
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SimL
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Interesting black and white Taiwanese movie

Post by SimL » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:40 am

I found this on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSqNGH_K8oM

It appears to be a Taiwanese movie dating from 1958. It's nearly 1.5 hours long. There's a bit too much comedic action and music for my taste - I would have preferred more dialogue.

But still, I'm impressed that it exists (and presumably many others like it). I'm wondering what the social-political context of this film is? I mean, I had sort believed that when the Nationalist went to Taiwan, they vigourously went about suppressing Taiwanese language. Taiwanese of my own generation speak of being punished by their teachers, if they were heard speaking Taiwanese in school.

How does that fit in with the existence of this film? Perhaps the active suppression of Taiwanese only started in the mid-60's?

I don't know if amhoanna is still following this Forum. I hope so, because I'd love to have a bit more information on the background to this genre.
SimL
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Re: Interesting black and white Taiwanese movie

Post by SimL » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:19 am

Hah! Found this on Wikipedia: http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/王哥柳哥遊台灣

Will slowly work my way through the article. My Mandarin is now good enough that this should only be 2-3 days work :P.
Ah-bin
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Re: Interesting black and white Taiwanese movie

Post by Ah-bin » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:32 pm

I'm very pleased to hear that your knowledge of written Chinese has progressed to that level, Sim. No-one will be able to call you Ang-moh-sai any more! :lol: You'll also be able to read many more things about Hokkien and utilise about three times as many dictionaries.

I have to say, i started listening to this and can't understand much at all. I guess that means my Taiwanese is really terrible now!
FutureSpy
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Re: Interesting black and white Taiwanese movie

Post by FutureSpy » Sat May 04, 2013 6:28 pm

Thanks Sim. I finished seeing the movie yesterday, but as I said in another thread, I couldn't understand much of it :lol: Maybe that's a call for me to change my current study strategy. I remember when I was learning Japanese, outside classroom I'd never really study with textbooks. What I used to do was trying to translate songs by looking every unknown or unsure word in the dictionary, and constructions I wasn't familiar in a 文型字典 pattern dictionary. I also used to watch loads of anime and drama everyday, read and post in forums... And look at me with Hokkien. I still haven't learned enough from my textbooks, but I feel really afraid of get trapped forever into bookish situations and not being able to effectively learn it. I have songs, DVDs and Taiwanese people. It's time for an attitude change! :mrgreen:
amhoanna
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Re: Interesting black and white Taiwanese movie

Post by amhoanna » Sun May 05, 2013 2:12 pm

Perhaps the active suppression of Taiwanese only started in the mid-60's?

I don't know if amhoanna is still following this Forum.
Yes and yes.

At first the Party of Chiang was supportive of Hoklo media. They were against (1) bahasa Japan and (2) romanized Hoklo ... and (3) the bureaucracy was Mandarized overnight (I think), but they had no problems with spoken Hoklo media. To this day there is a decent minority of Hoklo Taiwanese born in the 40s and early 50s who speak broken Mandarin. They were probably schooled mostly in Mandarin at some pt, but they would've quit school at the age of 11 or 12, and thank the gods for that. :P
amhoanna
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Re: Interesting black and white Taiwanese movie

Post by amhoanna » Sun May 05, 2013 2:15 pm

間諜將來 (FutureSpy, in Vietnamese :mrgreen: ), what is a 文型字典?

I owe U a few dialogs still! I hope I'll be in time to be of service.
amhoanna
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Re: Interesting black and white Taiwanese movie

Post by amhoanna » Sun May 05, 2013 2:47 pm

Just watched some. Interesting to see what 台北 looked like back in the day. The characters pretty much all spoke with a 台北 accent that is not heard so much on TV these days, nor in the mouths of young people.
FutureSpy
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Re: Interesting black and white Taiwanese movie

Post by FutureSpy » Mon May 06, 2013 5:07 am

Just take your time, amhoanna! Just make sure to include stuff you think that would be interesting. Maybe Mandarin instead of English would work better with her. And if she doesn't know a word, I guess she can ask someone else and find out :mrgreen:

It took me a while to figure out 將 was 将. Japanese uses the latter simplified one... haha BTW, I thought you had pattern dictionaries in Chinese too. Say you have the sentence:

今頃になって慌てても、彼らはもう帰っているかも。
(Even if you hurry up now, they probably already left.)

If you don't know the construction, you just extract the pattern 今頃になって〜も~ and look up in the pattern dictionary. I think that's the closest to a grammar you can have for Japanese...
SimL
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Re: Interesting black and white Taiwanese movie

Post by SimL » Mon May 06, 2013 4:10 pm

Hi Amhoanna,

Great that you're still following the Forum.

Thanks for the additional information about the sociolinguistic background the Taiwanese film.
niuc
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Re: Interesting black and white Taiwanese movie

Post by niuc » Mon May 06, 2013 7:01 pm

Sim, thanks for the link. I have only watched it for a while due to time constraint. Although I can understand it, it is indeed not the typical Taiwanese accent we hear today on media... interesting to hear 台北 accent (thanks to Amhoanna for the info).
SimL
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Re: Interesting black and white Taiwanese movie

Post by SimL » Mon May 06, 2013 7:35 pm

Hi niuc,

Sorry to hear that you're so busy, but lovely to see that so many regulars are still checking in to the Forum every now and again :P.
amhoanna
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Re: Interesting black and white Taiwanese movie

Post by amhoanna » Wed May 08, 2013 1:20 pm

Nice to see everyone here. Hoklo-Hokkien discussions are really bumping and jumping on Facebook. My "concern" is that Facebook ain't really searchable. It's like pissing in the desert. The built-in search on this forum ain't the greatest either, but everything is indexed by Google and them. The only concern would be the whole thing folding. Some kind of backup would be a good idea, but I'm not savvy and I take it neither are most of y'all. Sóa khì pa̍t'ūi mã cinciàⁿ khùnlân, lán siuⁿ pīntōaⁿ. ;) We are better off here than almost anywhere.
Pier
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Re: Interesting black and white Taiwanese movie

Post by Pier » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:17 am

The suppression of the Taiwanese is true and brutal esp. after the 228 Incident; where almost 20,000 Hokkiens was killed by the nationalist KMT soldiers. Thousands more were put into the prisons. It is a tragedy of soldiers killing unarmed natives Taiwanese (esp Hokkien, Hakka and aborigines) i.e. Chinese Mainlander soldiers killing Chinese Taiwanese); from 1949 till mid-1980’s. That was the era of Mandarinization to consolidate their Nationalist/KMT position for the propaganda of ROC believe to re-take China Mainland from the CCP.

However, the Taiwanese movies still appear in production during the martial law period because the Kuomintang(Nationalist/KMT) is unable to uphold the suppression due to limited resources. The rules was strict on broadcast media like TV and radio and at schools only. As Taiwan is a big island, the implementation of the dialects suppression rules only cover the area of northern Taiwan only esp. Taipei metropolitan area of Taipei City and Taipei County but were quite relaxed in other regions. As such, till today Taiwanese language are flourishing in central and south Taiwan esp Kaohsiung, Tainan and Taichung, including all the towns surrounding the southern Taiwan.
SimL
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Re: Interesting black and white Taiwanese movie

Post by SimL » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:54 pm

Hi Pier,

Thanks a lot for your additional information. Sounds like you're Taiwanese, living there and having real on-the-ground experience and knowledge. Hope you'll continue to visit and respond every now and again, perhaps even become a regular here!

Most people here would know "City of Sadness", perhaps one of the most beautiful films I have ever seen, connected to the theme of the 228 massacre.
amhoanna
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Re: Interesting black and white Taiwanese movie

Post by amhoanna » Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:19 am

What Pier shared with us is "what Taiwanese people assume is true", kind of a static perception. Recent experience and contacts inform me that Hoklo is not doing well at all in Kohiong, Taitiong and much of Middle Taiwan (countryside included). Young people are just not speaking it. On the other hand, young people have never stopped speaking it on the North Shore (in "Taipak County") (where CITY OF SADNESS was set).
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