Some new PDF's I've found

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
Ah-bin
Posts: 830
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:10 am
Location: Somewhere in the Hokloverse

Some new PDF's I've found

Post by Ah-bin » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:17 pm

Two books I chanced upon in the search for materials recently:

A copy of the Sam Chu Keng 三字經 with pronunciation given in Cantonese, Hokkien, and Mandarin (notes in English) published in Singapore in 1941

http://archive.org/details/TheThreeCharacterClassic

A history of the Douglas Dictionary, including the edition with characters (discussed here before)

http://www.sealang.net/lwim/AmoyDescription.pdf
FutureSpy
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: Some new PDF's I've found

Post by FutureSpy » Thu May 02, 2013 4:23 am

Wow! Thanks for sharing, Cathy! That's really great, especially for the English on it :mrgreen:
FutureSpy
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: Some new PDF's I've found

Post by FutureSpy » Mon May 06, 2013 7:24 am

Cathy, in the back of the 三字經 book you posted, they mention a Hokkien textbook. I managed to locate it:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fla3lcvw09mdiga/HVLB.pdf

It's very very basic, but the most surprising thing is that the author uses POJ. I'm just not quite sure it's Singaporean Hokkien, as I've never heard them say to-sia7 in any Singaporean movies. They usually would say kam2-sia7...
niuc
Posts: 734
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:23 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: Some new PDF's I've found

Post by niuc » Mon May 06, 2013 6:00 pm

Thanks so much, Cathy! I really like the pdfs, especially 三字經. The Hokkien romanization (POJ) is very helpful, especially for words that we do not use in daily conversation. I notice that it doesn't indicate the difference between o and o•, otherwise it looks perfect.

FutureSpy, thank you for the link but it is not working. Could you check and post again?
niuc
Posts: 734
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:23 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: Some new PDF's I've found

Post by niuc » Mon May 06, 2013 7:22 pm

Sorry, it does indicate the difference between o and o•, but I was misled by 所.
Is the literary reading of 所 só (as in the pdf) and not só•? Online dictionaries I searched only have só•.
FutureSpy
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: Some new PDF's I've found

Post by FutureSpy » Mon May 06, 2013 10:35 pm

Hey niuc. Just a quick reply. Try on this one: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/fla ... a/HVLB.pdf

I can send the file straight to your email if you still have trouble downloading it! :mrgreen:
SimL
Posts: 1407
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:33 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Some new PDF's I've found

Post by SimL » Mon May 06, 2013 11:17 pm

For me, it shows some pages and not others. The pages it doesn't show have a sort of "spinning clock" / "waiting" icon.
FutureSpy
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: Some new PDF's I've found

Post by FutureSpy » Tue May 07, 2013 3:52 am

SIm, maybe you should try downloading and opening the file in a standalone PDF viewer instead of your browser. Or wait some time until it loads completely. I just tried it here and it seems to work fine... :/

It's a very basic book. However, if only I could get the Hakka textbook by the same author, it'd indeed be interesting for an introduction ;)
Ah-bin
Posts: 830
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:10 am
Location: Somewhere in the Hokloverse

Re: Some new PDF's I've found

Post by Ah-bin » Tue May 07, 2013 12:55 pm

Excellent! Thank you Futurespy! I had another version of this in a colour scan locked for editing, it's great to have an open source copy like that. I should really make a dropbox account for stuff like that that I own, not that there is so much of it, now that I can no longer access the stock of books available to US users.

Chiang Ker-chiu wrote many different teaching materials for various Chinese languages. He had one in a different spelling system for the Amoy, which he referred to as Halgur or something like that. It was his own way of spelling Ha-gu 廈語, and the final -l and -r of the syllables was a reference to the tone. I came upon on this book in the University of Leiden Library. In the back it had a section of advertisements (page samples) for teaching materials he had written in other languages, including Cantonese and Hainanese, which were compiled in a similar method to this book.

There really is a dearth of Hakka and Hainanese teaching materials in English. I know of only one other book for Hainanese, which is the one on the Bun-chio 文昌 dialect (the usual Hainanese in Southeast Asia) by de Souza. As I remember, Chiang's book was for the Haikou 海口 dialect (the usual Hainanese taught in PRC textbooks), rather than Bun-chio. This i remember because of the word for "I", which is "gua" in Bun-chio, but "ba" in Haikou.
SimL
Posts: 1407
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:33 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Some new PDF's I've found

Post by SimL » Tue May 07, 2013 8:08 pm

Hi FutureSpy,

Indeed, just saving it and ignoring the non-completion on the browser solved the problem. I'm looking forward to having a look at the document - it will give me an insight into Chinese culture of that period in history.
FutureSpy
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: Some new PDF's I've found

Post by FutureSpy » Wed May 08, 2013 1:35 am

Glad it worked now, Sim!

I'm really happy to have this 三字經 edition with English annotations Cathy posted. Going to print it soon! :lol: I still have the audios she sent me one year ago, so it's all perfect. Today during lunch, I was following the book with the audio and it's great! No need to buy those fancy colorful editions for kids with audio CD anymore...

Cathy, is Hakka from Sabah any close to Si-yen and Moi-yen varieties? I'm very addicted to some songs from Sabah, so I'm very inclined to learning it, but so far no lucky finding any Sabahnese. I only knew a few Hakka artists from Taiwan, but finding out some music programs from Hakka TV is really making me feel divided. I'm still trying to find a Hakka to read aloud the sentences and words in the Japanese textbook. From all Hakkas I know, none seem really willing to help me, but I know where to find more Hakkas in my hometown. Just not sure of how am I going to approach them... orz

[EDIT] Okay, according to Wikipedia they speak Huiyang dialect. I'll try to find out more about it...
amhoanna
Posts: 912
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:43 pm

Re: Some new PDF's I've found

Post by amhoanna » Wed May 08, 2013 1:12 pm

I have been to Sabah. An internet café full of teenagers yelling and screaming in Hakka ... is something I've never seen anywhere else. In a restaurant, almost what they'd call a paladar in Cuba, the housewife that took my order only seemed to speak Hakka and Malay, plus "Cantakka", and she was about the same age as me! All this was in Kudat. I think the Hakka that they speak is basically Hong Kong Hakka or something like it. Probably close enough to Hoiliuk Hakka, with lots of Cantonese influence. A friend of mine has a Hoiliuk Hakka background and when he was working in Hong Kong, his colleagues accused him (just playing) of eavesdropping on their conversations in Cantonese (even though he never really tried to learn it). I imagine it would've been a lot harder coming from a Moiyen bkgrd.
Ah-bin
Posts: 830
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:10 am
Location: Somewhere in the Hokloverse

Re: Some new PDF's I've found

Post by Ah-bin » Wed May 08, 2013 1:51 pm

Haha...look what I found:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iwnmksbb04

Sounds very Moiyen to me. I was listening out for a few special vocab items that are distinctively Hoiliuk i.e. "voi" for 話 and "phon" for 飯. In this song I heard "va" for the former. Hoiliuk also has that "j" sound in Hokkien POJ, so "yit" 一 sounds like "日" in Hokkien. At 1:45 it is definitely "yit"
FutureSpy
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: Some new PDF's I've found

Post by FutureSpy » Wed May 08, 2013 10:24 pm

Ah-bin wrote:Haha...look what I found:
Oh, I had seen this one already! The songs I'm addicted to are precisely sung by the same guy: 余畑龙. But of course, it's not Gangnam Style... :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czQw4PyW-lU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVrPYWHJz9g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiSjwfbKXQo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKnkLlaV7sI
Ah-bin wrote:Sounds very Moiyen to me.
So it should be safe to learn some Si-yen given my options. Well, I'm not talking about really "learning" it, just picking up a few sentences and words. I do know a few Hakka, but I always greet them in Hokkien. So it'd be fun to at least say a few sentences in their mother tongue! :mrgreen:
amhoanna wrote:I have been to Sabah. An internet café full of teenagers yelling and screaming in Hakka ...
Hakka paradise? :lol:
amhoanna
Posts: 912
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:43 pm

Re: Some new PDF's I've found

Post by amhoanna » Thu May 09, 2013 5:53 am

Sounds very Moiyen to me. I was listening out for a few special vocab items that are distinctively Hoiliuk i.e. "voi" for 話 and "phon" for 飯. In this song I heard "va" for the former. Hoiliuk also has that "j" sound in Hokkien POJ, so "yit" 一 sounds like "日" in Hokkien. At 1:45 it is definitely "yit"
Sounds like I was wrong. So maybe Hoiliuk is like the Hoisan of Hakka? So close but yet so far? :mrgreen:
Locked