Some more characters I have difficulties with (2)

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
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elmer
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:12 pm
Location: Netherlands

Some more characters I have difficulties with (2)

Post by elmer » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:05 am

Again a couple of characters I have problems reading with, this time because the copy is terribly poor: http://s5.postimage.org/vql26pkrr/img617.jpg

Maybe it is more easy for people who have more natural ability in Chinese than I do?

thanks,
Elmer
Mark Yong
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:52 pm

Re: Some more characters I have difficulties with (2)

Post by Mark Yong » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:07 am

From right to left:

1. Sorry, this one is way too blurr to make out. I can only see the jade radical.
2. Looks like kui3 to me.
3. Looks like iap8, with the bottom two diagonal strokes missing.
4. Looks like le2, with the radical on the left missing.

Like any other language, it’s a matter of regular usage. After seeing the usual suspects often enough, you tend to be able to pick them out even with a couple of strokes missing.
elmer
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:12 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Some more characters I have difficulties with (2)

Post by elmer » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:06 am

Thanks,

It seems I am getting better in doing this: 2 and 4 are the characters that I also had in mind.

As for 1: I can see to the left the radical 王,土 or - less likely 扌. The right part seems to be something like 尒,厼, 余,佘: I can only make out the bottom tree strokes and the top-left stroke (of the roof). But I can't find any of the combinations between my thouhtsfor the left and the right part :cry:

As for 3, I also thought of the character 葉. However, I came across this character on several other places and the bottom two diagonal strokes are in all but one case missing. See, for example my next scan in which there are tree characters I have issues with (http://s5.postimage.org/8pippk67b/img618.jpg). Are you certain 葉 does not exist without the diagonal stokes?

thank,
Elmer
Mark Yong
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:52 pm

Re: Some more characters I have difficulties with (2)

Post by Mark Yong » Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:38 pm

Okay, found it:

Image

It appears to be a variant of hua1: http://dict.variants.moe.edu.tw/yitia/fra/fra03503.htm (the 22nd character shown in the list of variants on the top).

This might be it:

Image

It appears to be a variant of tin1/tsin1: http://dict.variants.moe.edu.tw/yitia/fra/fra02563.htm (the 5th character shown in the list of variants on the top).

The other two characters are siong1 and ai3.
elmer
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:12 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Some more characters I have difficulties with (2)

Post by elmer » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:31 am

Thank you for once again for your great support! From hear on the quality of the copies is much better and there are not so mny characters anymore that I can not read (and I am getting practiced :lol: ).

But here is one more that I can not decipher: http://s5.postimage.org/nm0l6elif/img619.jpg

Once again, thanx!
Mark Yong
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:52 pm

Re: Some more characters I have difficulties with (2)

Post by Mark Yong » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:47 am

hau5.
elmer
Posts: 90
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Location: Netherlands

Re: Some more characters I have difficulties with (2)

Post by elmer » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:34 am

When I see it, it makes sense. I am understanding now better and better what it must be for my eldest daughter who is learning to read right now.

Here I have two more characters: http://s5.postimage.org/95dbrtw13/img620.jpg. The first one is very common in the genealogy. So far, I have transcripted it as 周, but I am not sure, as in all cases the squae box is clearly connected to the outer strokes. And here it even seems as if there is a separate stroke between the top two horizontal strokes.

The second one, I am doubting because of the irregularity I see in the lefttop of the character.

regards,
Elmer
Mark Yong
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:52 pm

Re: Some more characters I have difficulties with (2)

Post by Mark Yong » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:16 pm

Yes, it is tsiu1. The one on your genealogy chart is a variant of it:
http://dict.variants.moe.edu.tw/yitia/fra/fra00559.htm (7th character from the left)
Image

The other one is tsai3.
elmer
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:12 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Some more characters I have difficulties with (2)

Post by elmer » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:06 am

thanks! The site your mentioning is really interesting. My tanscription is now ready, only sme characters need to be filled in. I will send it to you by PM to show you.

The next characterI am not sure about is here: http://s5.postimage.org/xsds34vaf/img621.jpg

thanks again
Mark Yong
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:52 pm

Re: Some more characters I have difficulties with (2)

Post by Mark Yong » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:59 am

lîn5.
elmer
Posts: 90
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Location: Netherlands

Re: Some more characters I have difficulties with (2)

Post by elmer » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:24 pm

Yes, thanks!

I posted the remaining characters on http://postimage.org/gallery/7udqxo6s/.

No pressure, not trying to push,it's just there. Maybe others can help as well?

Thanks to all,
Elmer

623: 富? although the bottom part looks more like 内?
624: i thought 杕, but the left part seems more like 禾?
625: 沛? although the top part seems to be a separate stroke
626: the top one I really don't know. The bottom one looks like (王+畿). What would be an alternative character?
627: 渥? although I am really not sure
628: 拔? I am unsure about the left radical
629:
630: 健? 鼎? and the third is really unclear to me
631: (言+內). What would be an alternative character?
632: the first is the same as the second unknown character on picture 631,
633
634
635
636
637: 梁? 頁? 嶅?
Mark Yong
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:52 pm

Re: Some more characters I have difficulties with (2)

Post by Mark Yong » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:36 pm

623. 富
624. 秋
625. 沛
626. (a) 新 (b) Variant of 璣 (http://dict.variants.moe.edu.tw/yitia/fra/fra02602.htm, last character in the list)
627. 渥
628. 拔
629. 備
630. (a) 健 (that's my best guess, judging from the shape of the visible strokes) (b) 鼎 (c) 飾
631. (a) 訥 (it is a standard character) (b )齡
632. (a) 齡 (b) 漢
633. 集
634. 寧
635. Variant of 衷 (http://dict.variants.moe.edu.tw/yitia/fra/fra03713.htm, looks like there are quite a few similar ways to write it)
636. 蔭
637. (a) 貞( b) 深 (c) 𡹘 (haven't I identified this character before in your other post? :P )

Since your interest appears to be mainly in the characters themselves, if you don't mind, I shall avail myself of adding on the Hokkien pronunciations and tone marks.
elmer
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:12 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Some more characters I have difficulties with (2)

Post by elmer » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:49 pm

Wow,

That is fast. You really helped me about. Sorry, about the double character, but you have to realize, although I am of academi bakcground, I am a four year old when it comes to Chinese characters (I hope :lol: )

And I am interested in the Hokkien pronunciation, because that was the real way their names were pronounced. But for me that was Step 2. Can you advice me on a good online Hokkien dictionary?

Once again, thanx, thanx.
Elmer
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