hanzi and romanization for these

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
casey
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 7:27 am

Post by casey » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:46 am

The dictionary "普通话闽南方言词典"(三联书店出版), compiled by Xiamen University, also shows "预" for "to play".
However, I agree that Ong has a point there. Maybe a "泉腔词典" would solve our problem, but I do not have one.

casey
Tai Ke Lai O Ban Lam Oe
ong
Posts: 535
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:04 am

Post by ong » Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:54 pm

There will be 泉州话大词典 from 王建设 sooner or later。I agree with 与 because it has a second tone 53 besides 22 which we use in malaysia but not 预 22.We could be right sometimes.I only say i 53.
I use to say tak ki 独自 besides ka ki and find that it wasn't a wrong sound.We can find it in ming periond spanish dict.
I just bought these dict today and feel very sad and angry about it.There are no mention of sects in eact 县市。Why the hell they do not bother to copy from those 县市志。Now I still have to pay for 漳浦和诏安志 because I don't have them.
As for hanzi like gam ,scholar from hongkong already found out the correct hanzi,they should use it.I have no respect for Prof.Ciu from now on.

:cry:
Mark Yong
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:52 pm

Post by Mark Yong » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:06 am

ong wrote: I just bought these dict today and feel very sad and angry about it.There are no mention of sects in eact 县市。Why the hell they do not bother to copy from those 县市志。Now I still have to pay for 漳浦和诏安志 because I don't have them.
:cry:
Hong,

I presume you are referring to the following 2 books:
1. 陳正統 "閩南話漳腔辭典"
2. 周長楫 "閩南方言大辭典"


I bought those two dictionaries, too. For me, my grouse is the lack of discipline in identifying the correct 本子 benzi for simple words like 'te/tue' (follow) and 'ce/cue' (search) - they simply resort to the Mandarin equivalents. Refer to my thread at viewtopic.php?t=3905 on this.
ong
Posts: 535
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:04 am

Post by ong » Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:18 am

The thing is some benzi already found out by taiwanese but they still refuse to follow it.
Last year 惠州方言词典 was published but no one can find a copy of it.
SimL
Posts: 1407
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:33 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: hanzi and romanization for these

Post by SimL » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:54 pm

Hi there shappil,

Welcome to the Forum.

As far as I know, there is a small community of people in Taiwan who regularly write Taiwanese in POJ. Those people seem to know quite well the tone-numbers and diacritics to use. The basic core of these people are probably Christian-based, or the descendents of people who are Christian. If I understand correctly, they publish newsletters and that sort of stuff in POJ too. (Though this is probably not on a very large scale.)

If I understand correctly, there are also some non-Christian Taiwanese who also use POJ on a regular basis (though this would probably be a much smaller group even).

A small sub-group of the above community (or just "group" or "these people", if you prefer) are probably the ones who update and add to the POJ-wikipedia: http://zh-min-nan.wikipedia.org/wiki/B% ... 2m-g%C3%BA.

Outside of this group, I know of almost no one who knows and writes tones for Hokkien. In Malaysia and Singapore, they are not even aware of the b-/p-/ph- and g-/k-/kh- distinction, and tend to write POJ p-/ph- and k-/kh- as b-/p- and g-/k-, based on their knowledge of pinyin. It always frustrates me to see Hokkien being written like this (I've said so in other postings on this Forum). I mean, I don't mind if people *REALLY* know what's happening, and use bb- and gg- for POJ b- and g- respectively, but a lot of the Malaysians and Singaporeans who write Hokkien "informally" DON'T know this, and simply ignore the distinction between POJ p- and b- (and between POJ k- and g-), probably writing both as just b- (respectively g-). This I find very sad.

In my experience, these people never write (or even know) tone-numbers. They write toneless pinyin adapted for Hokkien, and hope that the user works out which words they mean from context. [BTW, I don't view the omission of writing tones too negatively. I often do it myself, because: 1) writing a tone on every single syllable is a lot of extra work (and it can very often be worked out from context), 2) working out the tone is quite tedious, especially as the majority of syllables are pronounced with sandhi-tone, so it takes even longer work out what the citation tone is, in order to write it, 3) writing tones as numbers looks pretty awful (IMHO), 4) writing tones as diacritics looks a lot nicer (again, IMHO), but takes even more effort.]

So - to summarize - outside of the Taiwanese POJ-users, I think very few people (particularly in Malaysia and Singapore) know much about Hokkien tones. The exception being the dedicated contributors to this Forum, of course.
SimL
Posts: 1407
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:33 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: hanzi and romanization for these

Post by SimL » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:03 pm

Oh, I'm so embarassed!

I can't believe I fell for that d*mned spammer! He's been doing this for the last few months, randomly taking some text from a posting and re-posting it. It fits into the topic, so one doesn't realise it's spam for a while.

The clue is always the two links in the bottom left hand corner. The postings of arros123, etc are all the same thing, as I'm sure other regular Forum members have worked out.

I've marked these postings as spam (using the "spam"-icon available on every post - the exclamation mark in the triangle), I've written to the mods via the internal messaging system of this site, and I've mailed the mods via external mail (using the address of the sender for the automatic notifications when someone responds to a posting I've made). None of this has had any effect - the external mail wasn't even deliverable.

This is a huge contrast to a few years ago, where the mods removed spam (or even nonsensical postings) without being asked.

Oh well... guess it's just someone we'll have to live with.
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