Ang-Mor Knee

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
Mark
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Ang-Mor Knee

Post by Mark » Sun Jun 30, 2002 1:12 pm

Ah Lian went to the Emporium to look for knee-high stockings and approached a salesgirl.

Ah Lian: Loo ooh buay stocking kao knee boh?

Salesgirl: Kao nee? Kao yeo, ooh. Boh kao nee eh!

Ah Lian, realising her mistake, quickly corrected herself: Mm si tng nang eh 'nee'... si ang-mor eh 'knee'!

(note: this is meant to take place in a multilingual society where most people know English to some extent and many people know Hokkien)
Mark
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Re: Ang-Mor Knee

Post by Mark » Fri Sep 20, 2002 6:02 am

Reply-reply please! Specially' Yeo Boon Hong and Co.!
BHYeo

Re: Ang-Mor Knee

Post by BHYeo » Fri Sep 20, 2002 2:29 pm

Hi Mark!

I appreciate your "ang mo knee" dialogue but don't know how to reply.
By the way, your name sounds more "ang mo". Lu si ang-mo lang a-si hokkian lang?

Best regards.
James Campbell

Re: Ang-Mor Knee

Post by James Campbell » Sat Sep 21, 2002 5:09 pm

I can't figure out what romanization you're using. I think I'm confused over your double ee and double oo (plus h, is it a stop?), where these have different readings depending on the different romanizations that exist. I also don't know how to pronounce your 'kao' and 'yeo'. Maybe 'Yeo' Boon Hong could help me with that.
BHYeo

Re: Ang-Mor Knee

Post by BHYeo » Sun Sep 22, 2002 3:25 am

Dear James,


'Yeo' which is my surname is pronounced as 'yang' in Mandarin and is different from what Mark meant in his joke. I think the 'yeo' used by Mark should be 'u' as in 'kha-thau-u' which means knee in Amoy romanization. On the other hand, 'kao' should be 'kau' and 'nee' should be 'ni' in Amoy romanization. 'Ooh' means have. I also can't figure out what romanization Mark is using but reading the pun as a whole it should not be difficult to comprehend what he meant. Perhaps Mark can clarify further on this.
Mark
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Re: Ang-Mor Knee

Post by Mark » Sun Sep 22, 2002 5:29 am

I didn't use a specific romanisation as I did not transcribe it, I recieved it from a Singaporean friend in this format and decided to pass it on as both a pun and a linguistic treasure of how Hokkiens in Singapore romanise their language most often.

Generally, I've seen these sorts of romanisations used a lot by Hokkiens in Singapore and Malaysia who spell Hokkien in romanisation how they think it would be spelled in English, and that's the reason for the "ee" and "ooh" "yeo" "kao" etc.

Offhand I think "i" is used for the "ee" sound as in "bee" more in English, but I haven't thought about it much, also "e" instead of "eh" or "a" or "ey" or "ay" etc. but people around the world seem to think "ee" "oo" and that if they add an "h" to the end it makes vowels long or serves to clarify the preceeding sound (if you have an "a", to many people that means "e" [as in Japanese romanisation], but if you add "h" to make "ah" that makes it "a")

This generally doesn't fit romanisations used by Taiwanese people interested in romanising their speech for whatever reason (usually because they find it hard to fit Hokkien to hanzi, or there are certain Hokkien syllables that don't seem to correspond to hanzi, so certain conventions for such things exist), and it's interesting because instead of being a more linguistically-minded romanisation, it's been developed by people who are used to using the Roman alphabet only for English (and sometimes Malay), so they spell things how they would be spelled in English.

this post sounds sort of strange, but that's because I just sort of blurted it out and I think I've repeated a lot of things here... :/
PPK

Re: Ang-Mor Knee

Post by PPK » Mon Sep 23, 2002 5:00 am

the 'kao' i think is 'reach', my pronouciation of that word is 'gao'('gou' in mandarin, meaning 'enough'). 'yeo' is the minnan pronouciation for 'waist', or 'yao' in mandarin.
Mark
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Re: Ang-Mor Knee

Post by Mark » Tue Sep 24, 2002 5:20 am

阿蓮: 有袂stocking到knee無?
店女: 到胸? 到腰, 有. 無到胸ㄟ!
阿蓮: 毋是通nangㄟ'胸'... 是紅魔ㄟ'knee'!

(胸=ni, not sure of correct hanzi here)

couldn't find hanzi for nang, used ㄟ for e (often written in romanisation on all-hanzi wepsite)

I wonder how 阿店 would respond...? :p
KDLim

Re: Ang-Mor Knee

Post by KDLim » Tue Sep 24, 2002 8:41 am

I think the salegirl would give almost the same response because whether it is tng-lang eh ni or ang-mo eh 'knee' still sounds the same 'ni' to her unless it is backed by some form of action to indicate the difference.
PPK

Re: Ang-Mor Knee

Post by PPK » Tue Sep 24, 2002 1:57 pm

then the knee should be 'nai'(奶) in chinese, meaning chest or breast.
James Campbell

Re: Ang-Mor Knee

Post by James Campbell » Tue Sep 24, 2002 3:31 pm

Dear Mark,

I think I somewhat follow you there. Basically it's an English pronunciation type of Minnan, which is kind of strange because English spelling is quite irregular.

Remember that pronunciation of Roman letters aren't like Japanese romanizations, but rather the other way around. Roman letters a, e, i, o, u are pronounced the same in almost all the European languages with few variance. English (and perhaps others like Portuguese) are the ones that have undergone vowel shift.

I can only assume that Malay was recorded and given Roman writing based on these Roman letter features, and perhaps was a romanization itself after Jawi. And Japanese romanization was given these features as well, although some of their vowels are slightly different than those found in European languages. The IPA also uses these features. Most languages that are recorded and introduced to writing for the first time are given these vowel features, such as African languages. I can only assume it natural then to find that Minnan 'i' is equivalent to a European 'i', an 'a' like a Euro 'a', an 'e' much like a Euro 'e', and so on.

In most Minnan I've seen online, that 'o' and 'oo' used to distinguish the schwa from the /o/.


James
KDLim

Re: Ang-Mor Knee

Post by KDLim » Wed Sep 25, 2002 4:40 am

ppk,

Precisely, 'knee' is breast or chest to the salegirl presumably because she understands only Hokkien.
Mark
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Re: Ang-Mor Knee

Post by Mark » Mon Sep 30, 2002 7:05 am

阿蓮: 有袂stocking到knee無?
店女: 到奶? 到腰, 有. 無到奶ㄟ!
阿蓮: 毋是有人ㄟ'奶'... 是紅魔ㄟ'knee'!
Mark
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Re: Ang-Mor Knee

Post by Mark » Mon Sep 30, 2002 7:14 am

Somehow I think I've used the wrong hanzi for tnglang...

Also for loo...
Mark
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Re: Ang-Mor Knee

Post by Mark » Mon Sep 30, 2002 11:53 pm

阿蓮: 有袂stocking到knee無?
店女: 到奶? 到腰, 有. 無到奶ㄟ!
阿蓮: 毋是唐人ㄟ'奶'... 是紅魔ㄟ'knee'!

:/
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