Meaning of 'dik'

Discussions on the Cantonese language.
Linwe
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Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 2:01 pm
Location: Aussie-Land

Meaning of 'dik'

Postby Linwe » Wed May 18, 2005 3:57 pm

I've tried soooo hard to find the meaning of this word but it seems in its isolated form, no dictionary or phrase book has it.

I really can't work out what it is...help!!

context: I was listening to a Kelly Chen song (Hope/Jewel in the Palace) from her new album and there's a line...

nei dik mei siu
(you) (??) (smile)

what does 'dik' mean???

Mark Yong
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:52 pm

Postby Mark Yong » Wed May 18, 2005 4:33 pm

Hi, Linwe,

'dik' is a possessive particle, used in Mandarin grammar. The character is 的. In Mandarin, it is pronouced 'de1'. So, "nei dik mei siu" 你的美笑 translates as follows:

nei = you, therefore nei+dik = your
mei = beautiful
siu = smile

Regards,
Mark

Linwe
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 2:01 pm
Location: Aussie-Land

Postby Linwe » Fri May 20, 2005 4:20 am

Thanks soo much!!
makes sense now!

And if I may ask...what's the rules involved with 'dik'? can it follow 'kui' for example?

Mark Yong
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:52 pm

Postby Mark Yong » Fri May 20, 2005 6:47 am

Yes, it can. k'ui dik 佢的 (his/hers), ngor dik 我的 (mine), XXX dik, etc.

Linwe
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 2:01 pm
Location: Aussie-Land

Postby Linwe » Sun May 22, 2005 10:48 am

Ok, last question...

could you translate these for me?

nuen dik (context: nuen dik sam oi jui yik)

jung dik (context: sam jung dik kei mong)

mei dik (context: chuen wai liu yi ging jaau do yuen mei dik yat goh)

mo ham dik yung po

thanks!

Mark Yong
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:52 pm

Postby Mark Yong » Sun May 22, 2005 4:33 pm

Without the actual characters, it is difficult for me to do an accurate translation, but in general, the "dik" here still functions as a possessive particle - in the contexts you have listed, it means "..of the..."

So, sam jung dik 心中的期望 means "hope OF THE (centre of the) heart", mei dik yat guo 美的日過 means "the passing OF A beautiful day", etc.

qrasy

Postby qrasy » Mon May 23, 2005 7:46 am

What is 'nuen' anyway?

Linwe
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 2:01 pm
Location: Aussie-Land

Postby Linwe » Sat May 28, 2005 6:57 am

'nuen' can mean 'warm' but if there's any other word that it shares with I have no clue...

j

Postby j » Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:30 am

As you guys may know, with the same pronunciation, it can mean different words in Cantonese (and Putonghua). Sometimes we may guess, but sometimes we can't.

j

Postby j » Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:48 am

Sorry but I don't think this is 100% correct. In spoken Cantonese, we usually say "k'ui gare" 佢o既 rather than "k'ui dik" 佢的. e.g. "k'ui gare mei siu" 佢o既微笑 (same pronounciation for his smile or her smile). While in writing (Chinese), we usually write as 他的微笑 or 她的微笑 (different writing for his and her), and pronounce in Cantonese as "ta dik mei siu" (same pronunciation for his smile or her smile).
Please note lyrics in Cantonese songs sometimes use spoken Cantonese or written Chinese (and pronounce in Cantonese). In this case, the lyrics is in written Chinese (and pronounce in Cantonese), and so it use the word "dik" 的 instead of "gare" o既. Though anyway, both are of the same meaning.
Hope this help. ^_^


Mark Yong wrote:Yes, it can. k'ui dik 佢的 (his/hers), ngor dik 我的 (mine), XXX dik, etc.

Linwe
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 2:01 pm
Location: Aussie-Land

Postby Linwe » Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:12 pm

j wrote:In this case, the lyrics is in written Chinese (and pronounce in Cantonese), and so it use the word "dik" 的 instead of "gare" o既. Though anyway, both are of the same meaning.
Hope this help. ^_^



I also noticed that... that's why I had soo much trouble finding out themeaning of dik...however Kelly actually says 'dik' so it can't be purely for written chinese...can it?

so is 'ge3' more commonly used and more colloquial than 'dik'?

I found these lyrics on the net and they were translated without any tonal system so its soo hard for me to try and translate it myself considering each word could have soo many meanings!!

Mark Yong
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:52 pm

Postby Mark Yong » Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:16 pm

j wrote:In spoken Cantonese, we usually say "k'ui gare" 佢o既 rather than "k'ui dik" 佢的. e.g. "k'ui gare mei siu" 佢o既微笑 (same pronounciation for his smile or her smile). While in writing (Chinese), we usually write as 他的微笑 or 她的微笑 (different writing for his and her), and pronounce in Cantonese as "ta dik mei siu" (same pronunciation for his smile or her smile).


Hi, J,

Yep, understood! I am aware that 'dik' 的 is not used in Cantonese speech, and 'ge' o既 is used. The reason I do not normally use o既 to represent 'ge' is because of my contention that 'ge' either has some other actual Chinese character to represent it, or that it is a purely spoken word with no 本字. "既" by itself is pronounced "gei", and means "since this is the case...". I do try to be a bit strict when assigning 漢字 to words. :D

As an aside, I also tend to shy away from using 佢 for "k'ui" (he/she/it). The reason is because my belief is that this character was phonetically 'created' to suit the pronunciation, and is historically not the actual 本字. My theory is that "k'ui" evolved from 其, which was used in 文言 (Classical Chinese) for the 3rd person. Taking it a step further, I believe that "ngor dei" (we) should not be popularly written as 我地, but is really 我等 (where 等 takes on the original meaning of "plural", e.g. 等等). Another example is "ka ha" (now) - a fusion of 今下 (this one can be proven, as it is genetically linked to the Hakka "kin ha").

Regards,
Mark

hong

Postby hong » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:52 am

Mark,In Prof.Li's book I see he said it is.家下 because of 今kam change its consonant to ka due to ha at the back.
also 如今 become 如家 ka instead

Mark Yong
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:52 pm

Postby Mark Yong » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:49 am

Another example is "bei" (to give). Nowaydays, it is written as 卑. However, in 李伯輝's book on Cantonese, he identifies the actual character as 畀 (references cited define it as 與也, 賜也).

For a detailed account of the original characters for many words used in the Cantonese dialect, in my opinion 李伯輝's book does serve as a good reference.

hong

Postby hong » Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:05 pm

畀is from 詩經.I think a book 684 pages from hongkong is better
www.chineseupress.com 廣州語本字


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