Is the new pronunciation of "I" ( ngoh ) as "

Discussions on the Cantonese language.
Cris

Is the new pronunciation of "I" ( ngoh ) as "

Postby Cris » Thu Aug 23, 2001 11:17 am

I read in a book and heard it also in HK, that many people say leih instead of neigh or only ogh instead
ngoh.
Is this slang or do this expressions also use
"educated" people?
Or is it used mainly by younger people ?
Does it it sound old fashioned or a little stiff
,if I still say neigh ?
are there more words like these, who are nowadays
pronounced differently ?

canto
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:53 pm

Re: Is the new pronunciation of "I" ( ngoh ) as &q

Postby canto » Thu Aug 23, 2001 4:38 pm

hi cris
i wouldn't say it a fashion or sth regarding this issue.
but cantonese especially those in hong kong are now less aware of the correctness of the pronounciation :(
e.g.,
- the replacement of " n- " with " l- ";
- the omission of " ng- ";
- the replacement of " ng- " with " m- ".
the fact is the MISTAKES seem to be acceptable WIDELY by most people. no one will eager to correct the speaker the pronounciation not even by some of the irresponsible teachers!!! the worst is when you speak it the correct way, you will be treated as an "ET" saying that you are just "overstrict". however, on the other hand, there are people read it affectedly. they do not omit the " ng-" but try to read it as if it is another character i.e., the sounding of the " ng- " is far too looooonnngg than it should be!!! the nasal part is too STRONG that trying to "overwhelm" the whole character.
my little advice is to keep on reading it correctly, but do not alter the "tempo" of each character (too much).
for example, say " ngOh " but do not say " NNGGOH "

Paul

The younger generation prevails.

Postby Paul » Fri Aug 31, 2001 8:37 pm

Using "l" instead of "n" is the trend in the younger generation. If everyone is speaking this way, the majority wins.
Paul

Kobo-Daishi

Generation gap?

Postby Kobo-Daishi » Sat Sep 01, 2001 6:34 pm

Dear Paul,
I don’t think it’s necessarily a generational thing.
In my copy of “FSI Cantonese Basic Course Volume One” by the Foreign Service Institute (FSI) it states:
“In Standard Cantonese as spoken in Hong Kong there exist variations in pronunciation which cannot be called substandard, since they are used by educated persons. One such variation is to substitute an l sound for an n sound in words and syllables which begin with n. Some educated speakers do not have initial n in their speech, and substitute l wherever n occurs. This is quite common in Hong Kong.”
My copy of the book is dated 1970. So, the substitution of l for n was already common enough at that time to be noted in the book.
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.

canto
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:53 pm

Re: The younger generation prevails.

Postby canto » Sun Sep 02, 2001 4:30 pm

whoever wins, the fact is "ngo5" is formal and correct, whereas "o5" or whatever are not formal and "incorrect" but acceptable by most people in hk. an educated cantonese would never say "o5" instead of "ngo5".
for the correct pronunciatoin of "I" in cantonese in the hk standard, click on the below url:
http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/cgi-bin ... ery=%a7%da
the host of the above page is:
http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton2/
on the host page above at the top right corner, you will find a logo - it means they are under the funding of the hk government, visit also http://info.gov.hk/qef/ .
just keep on checking the above to check with the latest, making sure that the correct pronunciation of the cantonese that the hk government is advocating at the moment.
prob. one day the page will include the "o5" sound in the future giving it a "status", who knows?

canto
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:53 pm

Re: The younger generation prevails.

Postby canto » Mon Sep 03, 2001 10:54 am

check also the following for the "n", "l" issue:
http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/cgi-bin ... ery=%a7%41

Kobo-Daishi

Ng initial sound

Postby Kobo-Daishi » Thu Sep 06, 2001 7:51 am

Dear readers,
Is there a possibility that the Cantonese dialect might one day lose completely the initial ng- sound?
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.

canto
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:53 pm

Re: Ng initial sound

Postby canto » Fri Sep 07, 2001 5:35 pm

yes is my answer.
Cantonese, like every language, is always changing. in fact, i wont be surprised the "ng-" be "missed out" one day. no one knows.
: Dear readers,
: Is there a possibility that the Cantonese dialect might one day lose completely the initial ng- sound?
: Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.

Kobo-Daishi

Re: Ng initial sound

Postby Kobo-Daishi » Sun Sep 16, 2001 6:28 pm

Dear Canto,
I, too, fear that Cantonese might one day lose the ng- initial as Mandarin has. In fact I think Cantonese has already lost many of the ng- pronunciation in a lot of characters that had them during the Tang dynasty. I think that my dialect, Tai Shan Hua, and perhaps Hakka retain more of the ng- initial from the Tang dynasty than does Cantonese. Even Vietnamese has more of the ng- initial in their words than does Cantonese.
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.

ammena
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Is the new pronunciation of "I" ( ngoh ) as "

Postby ammena » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:03 pm

I think Cantonese has already lost many of the ng- pronunciation in a lot of characters that had them during the Tang dynasty. I think that my dialect, Tai Shan Hua, and perhaps Hakka retain more of the ng- initial from the Tang dynasty than does Cantonese.


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