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Re: Korean invented chinese language

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:17 am
by James Campbell
That's like saying Microsoft invented the computer. Ok, ok, Microsoft DID invent the X Box right? Wow, what an innovation.

I think (I may be wrong) electronics can be given credit to Thomas Edison, founder of General Electric company, which basically is the grandaddy of electronic appliances. How long has Sony been around for anyway?

Sure, they've invented a lot of modern things but those are based off of previous inventions. Well maybe somebody else invented the book, a poster, or report, but the paper itself can be attributed to the Chinese. I believe the Egyptians had something similar, papyrus?, but I think that's taken directly from a plant. Hey, that word sounds awfully similar to 'paper'.

Hey, Mark I wrote you a message with a lot of questions in the Hokkien forum, but you still haven't answered for a couple weeks, wonder if you're going to get around to it?????

Re: Korean invented chinese language

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:38 am
by Mark
Ooh, sorry about that. I just haven't been here recently until yesterday, and I didn't check anything except this and a couple other threads in the Cantonese forum.

>"sushi"
>is a preserved archaic Japanese word, but unnaturally forced to be
>written in Chinese characters as 壽司.

日本語で、「鮨」です。
In Japanese, it's 鮨 and not 壽司.

Also, there's the ancient Japanese word "yamato" (やまと)大和, which is written in Harnji based on its meaning and not its sound. But this is highly irregular for Japanese words.

(Oh, YAMATO is the ancient Japanese word for "Japan", before the EVIL CHINESE came and told them "you are NIHON, the root of the sun")

Re: Korean invented chinese language

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 2:16 pm
by Thomas Chan
Mark wrote:
> >"sushi"
> >is a preserved archaic Japanese word, but unnaturally forced
> to be
> >written in Chinese characters as 壽司.
>
> 日本語で、「鮨」です。
> In Japanese, it's 鮨 and not 壽司.

No, you are mistaken. Both 壽司 and 鮨 are both valid, and 壽司
(for the first character, use the Japanese simplified form, U+5BFF) is
actually more common--if you do a search on Google and have it return
only pages in Japanese, it's 332,000 to 77,200.


> Also, there's the ancient Japanese word "yamato"
> (やまと)大和, which is written in Harnji
> based on its meaning and not its sound. But this is highly
> irregular for Japanese words.

Irregular?? Haven't you heard of ateji?


> (Oh, YAMATO is the ancient Japanese word for "Japan", before
> the EVIL CHINESE came and told them "you are NIHON, the root
> of the sun")

Huh? The usage 日本 is Japanese in origin, from their correspondence.
The Chinese called them "yematai".


Thomas Chan
tc31@cornell.edu

Re: Korean invented chinese language

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 2:45 pm
by Thomas Chan
Thomas Chan wrote:
> Mark wrote:
> > (Oh, YAMATO is the ancient Japanese word for "Japan", before
> > the EVIL CHINESE came and told them "you are NIHON, the root
> > of the sun")
>
> Huh? The usage 日本 is Japanese in origin, from their
> correspondence.
> The Chinese called them "yematai".

Here are the characters for yematai: 耶馬台. Another name the
Chinese used was wo 倭.


Thomas Chan
tc31@cornell.edu

Re: Korean invented chinese language

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2002 2:59 am
by peter
the gab-gol characters were found to be recorded in an ancient
Korean history book called 'Chun-bu-kyung' that was published during the
Koryeo dynasty, in the late 14-th century. As the gab-gol characters were
firstly found from relicts of the Yin dynasty in 1899 AD, it is highly
unlikely that the Koryeo author in the 14-th century would have copied the
gab-gol characters from relicts of the Yin dynasty in China. This suggests
that prototype of hanja (chinese character) was indeed Korean, because
Chun-bu-kyung is the oldest history book in Korea and it recorded the
original forms of the bone and shell characters.

Since 1961, bone and shell characters have been found in bones from Korea,
but this is the first time that they are recorded in the book. No known
Chinese history book recorded the forms of bone and shell characters. It is
expected that this finding will help decipher some bone and shell characters
that have not yet deciphered.

Detailed story is published in an academic paper (korean). You can read the
paper at http://www.hanja.com/plus/board/table/n ... ejong1.pdf
(you may need Korean fonts to read, but still you can see some pictures)
This paper also compares bone and shell characters between Yin, Koryeo
(Chun-bu-kyung) and great seal, together with some pictures of bone and
shell characters included in the Koryeo history book.

and regarding the "dong I", Ta wen k'ou, Lung-shan, Shang were essentially consists of "East I", whereas
Yangshao was essentially Chinese . Even most
Chinese archaeologists agree on this. Kwang-Chih Chang (1987) The Archaeology of Ancient China. Yale Univ.

Re: Korean invented chinese language

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2002 7:15 am
by floreo
Shoot, the first one in this thread didnt even have the necessary geographical idea about Korea and China. The Palace Location for Shang Dynasty is in Anyang which is almost in the middle of China. So how come Koreans would travel so deep into China as to make the characters???this is way to stupid! I don't wanna talk more about it!

Re: Korean invented chinese language

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2002 2:34 pm
by Dylan Sung
> gab-gol characters from relicts of the Yin dynasty in China.
> This suggests that prototype of hanja (chinese character) was
> indeed Korean, because Chun-bu-kyung is the oldest history
> book in Korea and it recorded the original forms of the bone
> and shell characters.


You mentioned elsewhere that Chun-bu-kyung only dates back to the 14th century. That would give 3000 or so years of unrecorded history between this point in time, and the dated artifacts found at the Yin Dynasty excavations.

The Korean peninsula state 'dynasties' began after China's Zhou dynasty, more than a thousand years after the beginning of Chinese characters.


> Since 1961, bone and shell characters have been found in bones
> from Korea, but this is the first time that they are recorded
> in the book. No known Chinese history book recorded the forms
> of bone and shell characters. It is expected that this finding
> will help decipher some bone and shell characters that have not
> yet deciphered.

> Detailed story is published in an academic paper (korean). You
> can read the paper at
> http://www.hanja.com/plus/board/table/n ... ejong1.pdf

The characters are clearly jinwen or bronze inscription characters. They are quite old, almost contemporaneous with those of the jiaguwen or oracle bone characters.

Jinwen are known throughout China, because the tradition of bronzes begin from jiaguwen era and continue to the end of the warring states. That is a 1000 year tradition of jinwen, and within a few hundred years of Xu Shen's Shuowen Jiezi of the early Han Dynasty.

From the site, http://www.fathom.com/feature/121782

[begin quote]
The translation of the oracle bone script was made easier by the survival of an early dictionary, Xu Shen's Shuowen jiezi (c. 120 CE). Xu Shen set out to "explain and interpret" nearly 10,000 characters, mostly from inscriptions in the "small seal" style of the Qin dynasty (221-206 BCE), but he also included many oracle bone graphs. At the time Xu Shen was writing, Chinese characters were written in a style that is still in use today, so his dictionary formed a bridge between the ancient past and the present.
[end quote]

As Xu Shen also included oracle bone characters, it nullifies your claim.

Dyl.

Re: Korean invented chinese language

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 6:20 pm
by James Campbell
What is Xu Shen's name written in characters?

Re: Korean invented chinese language

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 6:38 pm
by Dylan Sung
雪V

Dyl.

Re: Korean invented chinese language

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 3:46 pm
by ANTHONY
EVERYONE KNOW THE CHINESE HAS THE LONGEST CONTINOUS CULTURE IN THE WORLD. CHINESE CULTURES HAVE INFLUENCES MANY CULTURES IN SOUTHEAST ASIA AND EAST ASIA LIKE JAPAN AND KOREAN.

Re: Korean invented chinese language

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 3:47 pm
by ANTHONY
EVERYONE KNOW THE CHINESE HAS THE LONGEST CONTINOUS CULTURE IN THE WORLD. CHINESE CULTURES HAVE INFLUENCES MANY CULTURES IN SOUTHEAST ASIA AND EAST ASIA LIKE JAPAN AND KOREA.

Re: Korean invented chinese language

Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:56 pm
by Quentin
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To KP

Well I made the connection from knowing that Dai Han was Korea. I've never actually heard the word "HAN" as in Han Dynasty in Vietnamese. So I wasn't aware of the different tone or accent. I only knew the romanized spelling of both. Sorry :)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vietnamese called South Korea - Ðại Hàn
Vietnamese called the Han-Chinese Empire - Ðại Hán

Two completely different tones.

Re: Korean invented chinese language

Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2002 6:59 am
by ppk
i think the 'kimchi' thing stands cos my korean friends says in ancient times when they have no fridge, the veggies were preserved in salt water in the beginning of winter. there is another chinese word i came across for 'sushi', (尺,simplified chinese font), but dunno valid or not.

i think 'dahan minguo' were used only after ww2. the call themseves koreans in the past. ancient french map denotes 'coree' for korea in the past.

for japan i think there are a few 'govts' at that time, and 'wa' was the one who got a imperial seal of recognition from caocao during the 3 kindoms.

Re: Korean invented chinese language

Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2002 7:55 pm
by KP
Vietnamese called South Korea - Ðại Hàn
Vietnamese called the Han-Chinese Empire - Ðại Hán

Two completely different tones.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, like I said, my ability to read Vietnamese is limited because I need to learn those accents and tones......anyways, good to see your here :)

Re: Korean invented chinese language

Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2002 12:37 am
by peterkim
Chinese historian like to twist the history around, everybody know about it.
u just need to look at the Baduk/Weiqi intellectual game, Korean always easily beat down chinese .if this is really your invention, why chinese done so poorly?
and look also at the sport, the world cup, chinese also done very badly if compare to korean.
In modern technology, korean made products like Samsung, LG, Hyundai,KIA
are popular everywhere, where is chinese?
a population of 1.3 billion can't beat down a small nation with only 40 million , or 80 million if u want include North Kore, but still we done much better than chinese in almost every area.
the truh is out there, is just depend on you guys weather want to accept it or not.
many chinese historian in China also agree that Dongyi was korean and the creator for Da'wek kou culture. it was also recoded in Shi Ji from Shima Ji.